Posts by just n from bethel

49

Died and came back with memories !

by oldflame in

jw
friends

friends,.

i have a story to share with you and i hope that it does not bore you as it did just the opposite for me .

after hearing what i was told i was so pumped up with holy spirit i thought i was going to crawl right out of my own skin .

just n from bethel

Mary in defense of oldflame said: Unfortunately, it is very rare to get a 'open' discussion on the topic of anything spiritual on this board anymore (unlike the old days) and unless you're a 100% confirmed materialist, you're viewed as being off your rocker or on drugs ... and : many are just as closed minded now as what they were when they were Witnesses

Oldflame then says to those who don't believe his story: who are you going to blame when you are tormenting in Hell for Eternity ?

So nonbelievers and skeptic questioners are the un-open ones??? The emotional hamster wheels that drive these discussions get more hilarious each time I come here.

268

Is Biblical Morality Situational, Based Upon the Arbitrary Whims of Yahweh?

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

is biblical morality situational, based upon the arbitrary whims of yahweh?

murder is wrong... if god orders it however, then murder is right, and failing to murder is a sin.. .

exodus 20:13 versus 1 samuel 15:1, 7-11. .

just n from bethel

Solomon thought he had it all solved. ... He is essentially throwing his hands in the air which is much the feeling I get from modern atheists.

His life ended with about 1000 women (assuming all 9s and 10s much younger than him) at his beck and call - I'd say he pretty much "had it all solved".

87

Beliefs Tied to Geography

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

.

just n from bethel

No I saw it - doesn't matter though- that's the typical cop-out of these discussions.

The geography point of the OP is pretty much irrefutable. Add that to the fact that people believe simply because they want to believe. They want to believe that the ideas and belief systems that permeated their cultural background and environment and ultimately stuck deep down inside them as an emotional attachment, are true.

Whereas many non-believers also really want to believe, but refuse to rationalize away the utter lack of testable evidence to back up such beliefs. They want to believe, but they're unable to let emotional attachments blind them to ancient myths and their unverifiable accounts (as nice as feel-good as some may sound) in old copies of copies of books that have been completely debunked.

Some often want to believe so bad that they believe they hear voices which have scientifically been proven as mere chemical imbalances or simply imagined (http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/cme/content/article/10168/1534546). Clinical studies and diagnoses are then dismissed as not applicable to them.

But the ones that just admit - "I want to believe - because it feels good or right or helps me emotionally stay connected to my surrounding environment I grew up around" I absolutely respect such ones. I truly understand.

However when believers say they know their god(s) is absolutley 100% true and alive in a spirit world - without providing any verifiable facts, its hard to respect that. Moreover - it will never convince those wanting to believe but can't. It actually reeks of desperation, and observers are left with the conclusion that the only ones such persons are trying to convince are themselves.

Nonetheless, I'm glad there are a multitude of believers in all kinds of non-existent intelligent life. I wouldn't want it any other way, it makes life super interesting, especially with the ladies. I read that church is one of the best places to meet girls. Its said that women love that stuff. Astrology, Jesus, Karma, movies like Ghost - and of course all those Paranormal flicks... I'm all for them. Screw rationality - scary demons make chicks want to snuggle, and more. So in real life I don't knock it. I embrace it all. And let me tell you ... it's been enlightening.

So my new motto, as illogical as I may actually find belief in the supernatural - I say to others, especially the women:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfUYuIVbFg0

or even better - Journey, Supernatural beliefs, and Glee - chick crack X 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_DaoA_mheM&feature=related

87

Beliefs Tied to Geography

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

.

just n from bethel

you nor anyone else can absololutely prove there is no god.It's a little sad that you can't just admit this. You can theorize that there is no god. You cannot prove it. ... You cannot prove you are right.

One thing I have faith in - each time I come back to JWN - there will be a heated thread going on about the existence of supernatural powers. And another thing I have faith in - someone will use the same old argument about not being able to prove the negative ...

The only reply to that is this:

49

Died and came back with memories !

by oldflame in

jw
friends

friends,.

i have a story to share with you and i hope that it does not bore you as it did just the opposite for me .

after hearing what i was told i was so pumped up with holy spirit i thought i was going to crawl right out of my own skin .

just n from bethel

cocaine is a helluva drug

47

New here...need some support

by Freeof1914 in

jw
friends

first of all i am happy to be here..this site has been an invaluable tool which helped me get to the point where i am today.

i was born and raised as a jehovah's witness and i am now 30 yrs old.

my entire family are die hard witnesses; pioneers, elders, bethel etc.

just n from bethel

First off - welcome to freedom, and all the lessons it comes with, including the one that teaches you it does come with a price.

Secondly, it is interesting how quickly the wife who as a JW so loved playing the loyal submissive follower and helper to you - will abandon you at your lowest point and possibly throw in a little subterfuge to make things even worse for you. Not saying it will happen to you, but I'm just saying that it has happened to many, and it can't hurt to prepare a little offensively for it.

There's a lot about your situation that we don't know and everybody has their own set of unique circumstances...blah blah blah. Ok that's me done being nice. In my short time away from the org I've observed a number of men leaving the org that acquiesced to every other thing his wife wanted - in the hopes that maybe someday, she'd see the light. They spend a good chunk of their lives bending over backwards, trying to be this super-nice guy, only to discover they've been cuckolded the whole time. Not literally with another dude (but sometimes that too), but they've replaced you with God - except it's not really God, it's some NY religous executives who wield much more influence over her than you ever did or will.

So best advice I've seen on this forum comes from leavingWT - "Never discuss doctrine"

That is a great prinicple, especially defensively.

But what to do offensively.

1) Don't think you have to be a "yes man" to everything your wife demands now. Say "No" to anything that interfere's with your plans and activities to take back the life that was stolen from you.

2) She has no intention to help you plan your new life - so don't ask her if doing this or that is ok. Just do it and tell her she's welcome to join you. Include her as much as possible, especially in things that are social and meeting new non-JW friends.

3) If she tries to fight or nag you about your new life pursuits, don't be a dick back. And as much as possible, never show anger. Instead, laugh it off, and go about your plans and life. Tell her she's cute when she's fiesty and that your new friends would love her.

4) Remember she's doing multiple weekly activities away from you, all because some other men in NY are telling her to. Your best counter-attack is to plan things that are much more fun and intriguing and show her that you've found a life that finally matters and makes you a man of purpose. All your ambitions and those things that interested you but you put off for religion, it should be "game on" now. Those things are likely a reflection of who you really are inside. And if what she had for you was true love, then seeing you blossom should actually be a turn-on to her.

The JWs certainly have their indoctrination methods down - but it really is the same ol same ol, week after week - even hardcore diehards admit things are boring. Why do you think they love remodels and quickbuilds - anything to change their boring routine.

If you take a real stand as a man and quit letting the WT bully you through your wife and family still in - they'll see this. Your wife especially. She'll see someone who not only stood up for what he belieived in, but didn't shove it down their throats like they did to you and still do to others. You didn't repay evil for evil. (You see the watchtower has taught them to expect to be bombarded by all this anti-JW doctrine talk - but you're not going to do any of that - their minds will be blown, and your wife's confusion will perhaps lead her to see the WT wasn't right about you.) Instead - you go about taking your life back with a barage of activities that show you're living a fullfilling and happy life. A woman that truly loves you will support you in this and hopefully join once she sees that you actually did give her the better alternative.

If not - there's always this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnoTUjzbI3o

14

Is this really a balanced life?

by ShawnS in

jw
friends

my husband who was raised as a witness & has recently considered getting baptised brought home a "personal study schedule".

this study schedule was given to him by an elder and clearly states at the top "do not post to any electronic service such as the internet" - that alone makes me wonder - why are they hiding it??.

anyway, the schedule breaks down every day, clearly states how much time you should be spending reading the bible & jw literature each day through the week.

just n from bethel

It's not balanced because it's never ending. Meaning there's no end in sight. There's no way to measure your progress of knowledge. No grading or feedback system. Nothing that shows weather or not you're really even educating yourself - not to mention most of what you're studying involves believing that Jewish Christian mythology are true stories - and the other part of it is pretty much leap-in-logic jumps as to why some men in New York's interpretation and extrapolation of such stories should be adored and followed unquestionably.

But putting that aside - even if what what you were studying was actually beneficial information - there's no structure or purpose in it. It's solely to constantly reiterate a belief system that would fall apart, unless you spend 8+ hours a week telling yourself - "this must be true, this must be true," and afterwards - 'Look how much time I invested in studying all this, years of hours and hours each week - I can't possibly be wrong.' If there was actually a way to measure your understanding and internalization of information and perhaps even one day be done with that kind of schedule, like you know, how most courses and study programs work - then perhaps there could be some reasonableness to it.

But alas - the idea is to keep you so busy, that you never have time to learn something of real value with real educational advantage, much less, enjoy your life and family.

47

The Real God: An Epiphany (YouTube)

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

my apologies if this video has already been posted at some point in the past.

only recently did i become aware of this particular video.

the opinions of the author are expressed in a way that was new to me.

just n from bethel

If it's on youtube - in a cartoon - it must be true. Please don't question it.

47

The Real God: An Epiphany (YouTube)

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

my apologies if this video has already been posted at some point in the past.

only recently did i become aware of this particular video.

the opinions of the author are expressed in a way that was new to me.

just n from bethel

However, I submit that the difference would be because some believers think that lack of faith spells doom for their loved ones, and atheists have no such fear.

Perhaps that's one of many reasons, in addition to ''sharing" just because it's part of a Christians belief system - whatever the ancillary reasons they may attach to their 'faith-based sharing'. Nonetheless, the point is - that it is quite different in how nonbelievers behave and react - thus making the statement above about athiests reacting similarly to believers incorrect.

So you cannot make the statement that one is feeling that way because they're taking it personally, but not the other.

Obviously this statement conflicts with the fact that you admit there is a difference to begin with - either there is or there is not. You admit there is in one statement and say there is not in another .. that makes no sense. It sounds like you're trying to convince not anyone reading, but yourself perhaps?

So his theory fails, due to that. - Nope - he's pretty much spot on

47

The Real God: An Epiphany (YouTube)

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

my apologies if this video has already been posted at some point in the past.

only recently did i become aware of this particular video.

the opinions of the author are expressed in a way that was new to me.

just n from bethel

It was just a repetition of the statement used against theists.

Well that's obvious - it's a nice way of saying "I know you are but what am I" - except it doesn't apply with unbelievers. Thiests, more specifically, those of the Christian nature, have a faith that compells them to "share" their faith with others. What they don't want to admit, like the video points out, is that its just a way of convincing themselves, that their unfounded and unproven ideas regarding the supernatural are real. So it is indeed something that applies to many believers, especially sincere Christians, but it certainly does not apply on any equal level to unbelievers.

I don't make general statements that imply all or most, of anything.

Sure you do. You just did. Nothing to be embarrassed about. Generalizations can be true. It just isn't in this example with non-believers.